MySQLTalk.org MYSQL discussions groups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  only identical machines in a cluster?          MySQLTalk.org Forum Index -> MySQL Cluster Discussion View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message christian johansson Guest Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: only identical machines in a cluster? In the mysql cluster concept basics on mysql.com, I read: "Configuration of a cluster involves configuring each individual node in the cluster and setting up individual communication links between nodes. MySQL Cluster is currently designed with the intention that data nodes are homogeneous in terms of processor power, memory space, and bandwidth. In addition, to provide a single point of configuration, all configuration data for the cluster as a whole is located in one configuration file." If I don't misunderstand this completely, this means that in order to setup a mysql cluster, all machines in it have to be identical to each other. Is that really the case? What kind of performance penalties do you receive if you use un-equal machines? Does that make them all perform only so fast as the weakest link then? Thanks Christian Back to top Geert Vanderkelen Guest Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Hey Christian, On 29 Mar 2007, at 22:18, christian johansson wrote: Quote: In the mysql cluster concept basics on mysql.com, I read: "Configuration of a cluster involves configuring each individual node in the cluster and setting up individual communication links between nodes. MySQL Cluster is currently designed with the intention that data nodes are homogeneous in terms of processor power, memory space, and bandwidth. In addition, to provide a single point of configuration, all configuration data for the cluster as a whole is located in one configuration file." If I don't misunderstand this completely, this means that in order to setup a mysql cluster, all machines in it have to be identical to each other. Is that really the case? Data nodes don't have to be identical to the MySQL server using them. The SQL nodes can run on less or more power full machines. Quote: What kind of performance penalties do you receive if you use un-equal machines? Does that make them all perform only so fast as the weakest link then? It's not about performance, it's about availability. Data nodes are best to be equal because one takes over its partner when it gets down. Also, if you need to replace one of them, you know exactly what you need. In most cases, you want to have a spare data node which you can put immediately in with the others. And there for it is good to have the Data Nodes equal. Best regards, Geert -- Geert Vanderkelen, Support Engineer MySQL GmbH, Germany, www.mysql.com Are you MySQL certified? www.mysql.com/certification Back to top Andrew Hutchings Guest Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Geert Vanderkelen wrote: Quote: Data nodes don't have to be identical to the MySQL server using them. The SQL nodes can run on less or more power full machines. Although if you mix processor types in a cluster (such as PPC for 1 data node and x86 for another) you will run into problems. Regards Andrew -- Andrew Hutchings - Linux Jedi - http://www.linuxjedi.co.uk/ "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." - Jeremy S. Anderson Back to top Jason Brooke Guest Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Would dual core Xeon's (5150) be ok to mix with amd opteron's (252) Jason Andrew Hutchings wrote: Quote: Geert Vanderkelen wrote: Data nodes don't have to be identical to the MySQL server using them. The SQL nodes can run on less or more power full machines. Although if you mix processor types in a cluster (such as PPC for 1 data node and x86 for another) you will run into problems. Regards Andrew Back to top Geert Vanderkelen Guest Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? On Mar 30, 2007, at 08:42, Jason Brooke wrote: Quote: Would dual core Xeon's (5150) be ok to mix with amd opteron's (252) Yes. They are both x86. The endian has to be the same. Like Andrew said: mixing PowerPC Apples machines with Intel/AMD powered pc's will not work.. Maybe in the future, who knows :) Quote: Andrew Hutchings wrote: Geert Vanderkelen wrote: Data nodes don't have to be identical to the MySQL server using them. The SQL nodes can run on less or more power full machines. Although if you mix processor types in a cluster (such as PPC for 1 data node and x86 for another) you will run into problems. Regards Andrew -- Geert Vanderkelen, Support Engineer MySQL GmbH, Germany, www.mysql.com Back to top Stewart Smith Guest Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 07:18 +0100, Andrew Hutchings wrote: Quote: Geert Vanderkelen wrote: Data nodes don't have to be identical to the MySQL server using them. The SQL nodes can run on less or more power full machines. Although if you mix processor types in a cluster (such as PPC for 1 data node and x86 for another) you will run into problems. or rather a friendly error message (that was the first patch I added to Cluster :) There's currently ongoing work to allow mixed endian clusters (focus on same endian ndbd but mixed api nodes). Don't hold breath... but it's coming. -- Stewart Smith, Software Engineer MySQL AB, www.mysql.com Office: +14082136540 Ext: 6616 VoIP: 6616 (AT) sip (DOT) us.mysql.com Mobile: +61 4 3 8844 332 Jumpstart your cluster: http://www.mysql.com/consulting/packaged/cluster.html Back to top Andrew Hutchings Guest Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Stewart Smith wrote: Quote: or rather a friendly error message (that was the first patch I added to Cluster :) There's currently ongoing work to allow mixed endian clusters (focus on same endian ndbd but mixed api nodes). Don't hold breath... but it's coming. Surely there can't be many people requiring this nowadays? I would imagine most people using NDB will be using a bunch of almost identical hardware, if anything for ease of maintenance. I am sitting patiently waiting for MySQL 5.1 to go GA anyway because it would be nice to change a table schema (ie. TRUNCATE) without having to restart the other MySQL nodes. Regards Andrew -- Andrew Hutchings - Linux Jedi - http://www.linuxjedi.co.uk/ "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." - Jeremy S. Anderson Back to top Jon Stephens Guest Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Andrew Hutchings wrote: Quote: Stewart Smith wrote: or rather a friendly error message (that was the first patch I added to Cluster :) There's currently ongoing work to allow mixed endian clusters (focus on same endian ndbd but mixed api nodes). Don't hold breath... but it's coming. Surely there can't be many people requiring this nowadays? I would imagine most people using NDB will be using a bunch of almost identical hardware, if anything for ease of maintenance. I am sitting patiently waiting for MySQL 5.1 to go GA anyway because it would be nice to change a table schema (ie. TRUNCATE) without having to restart the other MySQL nodes. You're sure about this? AFAIK, it should just require a "dummy" query against the table afterwards from each SQL node. Quote: Regards Andrew -- Jon Stephens - jon (AT) mysql (DOT) com Technical Writer - MySQL Documentation Team Brisbane, Australia (GMT +10.00) Office: +61 (7) 3209 1394 Mobile: +61 402 635 784 MySQL AB: www.mysql.com Back to top Geert Vanderkelen Guest Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? On Apr 5, 2007, at 14:09, Jon Stephens wrote: Quote: Andrew Hutchings wrote: Stewart Smith wrote: or rather a friendly error message (that was the first patch I added to Cluster :) There's currently ongoing work to allow mixed endian clusters (focus on same endian ndbd but mixed api nodes). Don't hold breath... but it's coming. Surely there can't be many people requiring this nowadays? I would imagine most people using NDB will be using a bunch of almost identical hardware, if anything for ease of maintenance. I for one would welcome it. Having my PowerBook and Linux x86 machine, I could save some power on me laptop! There are also situation where people trust more big Sun machines, but have all there clients on cheaper x86 hardware for example. Quote: I am sitting patiently waiting for MySQL 5.1 to go GA anyway because it would be nice to change a table schema (ie. TRUNCATE) without having to restart the other MySQL nodes. You're sure about this? AFAIK, it should just require a "dummy" query against the table afterwards from each SQL node. Yes, no need to restart the mysqld. Not nice with the dummy, but it works. -- Geert Vanderkelen, Support Engineer MySQL GmbH, Germany, www.mysql.com Back to top Andrew Hutchings Guest Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Jon Stephens wrote: Quote: You're sure about this? AFAIK, it should just require a "dummy" query against the table afterwards from each SQL node. Yea, but its a PITA when you need to make a change to a table structure on a live system, or a developer runs TRUNCATE without telling you, its quicker just to do a 'service mysql reload' on the other SQL nodes. Running a "dummy" query via. PHP doesn't do it unfortunately, otherwise it wouldn't worry so much. We once had a situation where this wouldn't work at all, it said some unknown error. The only way around it was to drop the table and re-create it, even a full SQL node restart wouldn't fix it. If it happens again I will make sure I am told about it so I can file a bug report. Regards Andrew -- Andrew Hutchings - Linux Jedi - http://www.linuxjedi.co.uk/ "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." - Jeremy S. Anderson Back to top Kevin Clark Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? Hi, I'd like to pick up on the point made about using NDB on "almost identical" hardware - http://lists.mysql.com/cluster/4900 My own experience is that that in three years time the inexpensive commodity hardware I purchased will be obsolete and the only affordable option will be to buy the current CPU/RAM combination which performs twice as fast as that of my 'old' servers. My question is what impact will adding these new more powerful data nodes have upon the cluster? Can it cope with having half the data nodes perform twice as fast the other? I'd assumed the situation would be analogous to using memory DIMMs of different frequencies on the same motherboard - whereby memory performance is limited to that of the frequency of the 'slowest' DIMM - but I'm struggling to find on the WWW any practical guidance or experiences of scaling-out a MySQL Cluster further down the line. Any pointers as to how you managed or are planning to manage scaling-out your MySQL cluster would be gratefully received. Many thanks, Kevin Connection Software www.csoft.co.uk Back to top Stewart Smith Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: only identical machines in a cluster? On Fri, 2007-04-27 at 17:07 +0100, Kevin Clark wrote: Quote: My question is what impact will adding these new more powerful data nodes have upon the cluster? Can it cope with having half the data nodes perform twice as fast the other? I'd assumed the situation would be analogous to using memory DIMMs of different frequencies on the same motherboard - whereby memory performance is limited to that of the frequency of the 'slowest' DIMM - but I'm struggling to find on the WWW any practical guidance or experiences of scaling-out a MySQL Cluster further down the line. Things will cope fine - and if you just use data on the faster machine, it'll be faster than before! Of course, "global" performance is going to be limited by the slowest point. -- Stewart Smith, Software Engineer MySQL AB, www.mysql.com Office: +14082136540 Ext: 6616 VoIP: 6616 (AT) sip (DOT) us.mysql.com Mobile: +61 4 3 8844 332 Jumpstart your cluster: http://www.mysql.com/consulting/packaged/cluster.html Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         MySQLTalk.org Forum Index -> MySQL Cluster Discussion All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum MySQL----------------MySQL and JavaMySQL AnnouncementsMySQL++MySQL and .NETMySQL ODBCMySQL and PerlDatabase BenchmarksMySQL BugsMySQL Cluster DiscussionMySQL CommunityMySQL DocumentationEventum DevelopmentEventum General DiscussionMySQL General DiscussionMySQL GUI ToolsMySQL InternalsMySQL CommitsMaxDBMySQL PackagersMySQL Replication DiscussionBrisbane MySQL Users GroupMySQL on Win32  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.